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Is Legalwise wise?
Since its inception, the Migration Alliance (MA) has sought to promote and protect the interests of Registered Migration Agents (RMAs). A key aim of the MA has been to reduce and ultimately stop unregistered practice in any form including the unfortunate and often disastrous practice by Human Resources Managers and Education Agents.
However, getting rid of unregistered practice requires legislative change which the MA has been lobbying on for many years. MA has written to the Assistant Minister for Immigration, Senator Michaelia Cash last month providing a comprehensive suite of documents including submissions, briefing papers and draft legislative instruments designed to shut down unregistered practice.
The aim of all this is to provide comprehensive protection to vulnerable consumers by eliminating once and for all unregistered practice.
“While policy-makers and legislators consider the issue, the MA is of the view that migration advisory industry should band together against unregistered practice. At the simplest level, the suggestion is that RMAs and CPD providers should not encourage unregistered practice and in fact work to discourage it” says Liana Allan.
The MA notes that a new entrant to the migration CPD landscape, namely Legalwise Seminars has marked its entry as an accredited provider of continuing professional development by offering a “comprehensive half day program [that] provide….the most accurate, authoritative and current content to help you understand the process of migration law (both legislation and case law)” to “Employers, Agents and Lawyers”.
The MA objects to this bundling of RMAs with unregistered practitioners. “The seminar insults the professionalism of RMAs as it groups them with unregistered onshore practitioners. It begs the question: do seminars like these promote onshore unregistered practice?” says Liana Allan.
It is unfortunate to see the name of ex MIA president Laurette Chao on the list of trainers in the brochure.
“The MA would like to hear from Ms Chao or any other Legalwise Seminar presenters, how exactly they think the training of unregistered persons (Australian employers, Human Resources managers, accountants, etc) will not encourage unregistered onshore practice, more bad advice from HR managers and more crap decisions made by employers who, after attending these events with these four speakers, will think they know it all.
“Migration Alliance does not support the training of unregistered persons in Australia and we will be lobbying the Minister in this regard within 48 hours” says Liana Allan.
Comments
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Friday, 01 August 2014Money is helpful but not everything.
I'm a tradesmen and charge more than a lawyer.
Migration industry - not profession.
Lawyers are a professional group.
Not migration agents, who aren't lawyers reckon,
Tradesmen are a professional group. -
Thursday, 31 July 2014
I received a letter in the post from them this week. The first two things I did not like were that they were training employers and that it costs so much money just to do 2 points of CPD. I am not going to sit in the same room as an unregistered employer and listen to their stupid uneducated questions when i am paying top fees. I expect the class to be full of RMAs who know what they are talking about. not any Tom Dick or Harry from off the street. The content of the course looks very good but not for that money. No person in this profession is worth that much for that.
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Thursday, 31 July 2014
I threw it in the bin when I saw the price. $460 for 2 points. We can get better prices from MIA or LTA for 10 points.
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Friday, 01 August 2014
But Mia used to charge $35 or less for a seminar
Now look what they charge
Not worth being a member anymore -
Thursday, 31 July 2014
I see this as a way for Fragomen and others who want to sell Labor agreements to Australian businesses to invite them along to these courses so that they can show them how much they know, and how hard it is, and how intricate the law is.
This training might be the start of a sales sequence for potential business leads.
After this course is over the employers who attend might need to contact Fragomen and other lawyers in the group to have them start the services for a Labour agreement.
I wonder how any RM agent would feel comfortable asking a question in a room where non-agents and potential clients will be sitting listening. It would make me squirm. -
Thursday, 31 July 2014
My question is how can the OMARA approve such courses for CPD purposes?
How is it possible for a training event which caters to the layperson, who potentially has no experience or understanding of the Migration Regulations, Act or Policy (let alone even access to Legend), be considered at an appropriate level?
It is one thing to show someone the basics, but this is completely different to carefully analysing and understanding the Regulations.
I for one urge MA to make a formal complaint to OMARA in regards to the CPD accreditation of such courses.
It again brings the OMARA into question. What are they actually doing to assess the suitability of potential CPD course and providers?
If it is basic enough for HR personal with no Migration training to understand, is it of any benefit to a Registered Migration Agent? -
Thursday, 31 July 2014
Don't wait for MA to lodge a complaint all the time. Lodge your own complaints. This is appalling. As if I am going to sit in a room with employers who don't know the first thing about the legislation and policy and have no access to LegendCOM and listen to their stupid questions. Do you notice they call the Office of the MARA is simply called 'MARA' on their advertising? It changed from MARA to OMARA a long time ago now.
Notice the bottom of the form 'if you are unable to attend a substitute delegate is always welcome at no extra charge'. Does that mean staff of agents, more unqualified people?
Notice it also says that 'a delegates name, job title and company are provided to all presenters prior to the event'.
Notice the words migration agent are missing from the terms and conditions?
Notice how the job title of the delegate is an important part?
Notice how nowhere on this form does it ask for a MARN to be provided?
Notice how Lawyers and Employers are different categories to Agents in the heading? Does this mean that Lawyers who are not RMAs will also be in attendance?
CPD PROVIDER AGREEMENT:
6 Marketing and Advertising
6.1 Approved providers must ensure that the marketing and advertising of approved activities
is undertaken in a professional manner and maintains the integrity and reputation of
approved providers and the migration advice profession.
7.1 Each approved activity should:
(a) have identified learning strategies to achieve the learning outcomes,
(b) be appropriate and relevant to the work of a registered migration agent, -
Thursday, 31 July 2014
Before you have a go at OMARA about this maybe give them the benefit of the doubt. They probably didn't know that these people would be turning an approved CPD course into a public training event on migration law for non agents.
I am going to send my intellectually disabled sister to this event and get her to ask questions. After all they will accept ANYONE into the CPD event. My sister cannot stop speaking and will ask irrelevant questions which are not related to the topic. Good luck! -
Thursday, 31 July 2014
If this is allowed to continue then this is outrageous. The medical profession would never allow non-doctors to come and learn how to perform delicate surgery. The whole point of CPD is that it is 'continuing professional development'. The word 'continuing' denotes the concept that there is already a basic understanding. The word 'professional' means for the migration professional. The word 'development' means 'developing on sound knowledge'. Surely there is an entry-level for an attendant at CPD as employers do not meet 'Continuing Professional Development' basics.
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Thursday, 31 July 2014
It's too expensive anyway especially if I need to share the same space with non-RMAs who don't know about the legislation. Also I am too afraid to ask a question if the room is full of employers. What a joke.
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Thursday, 31 July 2014
The OMARA better do something about this. I am appalled. Anyone who gets this flyer from Legalwise should throw it in the bin in protest.
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Friday, 01 August 2014
Lawyers might be a profession but that doesn't stop lawyers being some of the most unethical, self-serving, money grabbing, conniving people on the planet. When employing a lawyer never think they are representing you. They do it for the money. Lawyers stop criminals going to jail by arguing petty points of law to get them off the hook (for money). Lawyers sell their souls for money. I would prefer to be a trades person than a lawyer.
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Friday, 01 August 2014
I find it hard to understand how teaching people about migration regulations is a bad idea. There are many reasons why registered agents should applaud the idea. One of the reasons is that it often clarifies for the learners why they should use RMAs and that giving advice as a non-RMA is potentially a breach of the law.
All the outrage against lawyers always amuses me. Everyone hates lawyers until they find themselves in trouble. If the lawyer does a good job--especially in a defence against OMARA or a criminal charge--the attitude changes . Of course, then we get the bill, and we hate the fees. And we're mad at lawyers all over again.
I doubt that all of our displeasure over Legalwise will do little more than bring them further free advertising. -
Friday, 01 August 2014
Most seminars I have attended always have one or two RMA's asking silly questions all the time anyway - if here they will be too embarrassed to ask then that is a positive. I dont see any problem with Legalwise doing this as I see it as a great opportunity to make money. I will show up with my logo printed on the back of my jacket and hand out business cards with our price beat guarantee. I will make sure to ask them how much they charge for this "complicated" work as well and if I walk away with a few good leads it will be worth the time.
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Friday, 01 August 2014Superlawyer maybe you are super-intelligent. I don't think it's a positive thing to have RMAs too embarrassed to ask questions in a learning environment which is supposed to be designed for agents. They need to be able to improve their skills and develop their knowledge somewhere and CPD is the perfect place for that.
Sometimes there are new RMAs in the profession who need to ask questions to improve their understanding. Whilst these might seem like silly questions to some RMAs, to the new agents it is important that they be given the opportunity to learn.
I have to agree, I think it is a great opportunity for agents wanting to meet potential sponsors who might give them some business. Making money is a great thing. Your idea to walk around with a logo on your jacket and handing out business cards is such a good one.
Doesn't that make this more like an expo or networking event than a CPD seminar (which it was approved as)? Just sayin'. -
Friday, 01 August 2014
The problem with this is that CPDs are intended to up skill Migration Agents and keep them up to date with changing Regulations. Dumbing down a CPD to make it accessible to the layperson completely negates the purpose of the CPD.
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Friday, 01 August 2014
The problem here is three-fold:
1. It shows that CPD is not really CPD it is 'open learning for the public'
2. There is no minimum standard to join migration agent CPD any more, wheras before you used to have to be a RMA to participate in RMA CPD.
3. By training non-agents on immigration laws and policy it is like giving a gun to a person not trained to use it.
I am personally not in favour of RMA CPD being infected with non-agents as I am quite an experienced agent and don't need my learning wasted by non-agents asking basic questions. By basic, I am talking about stuff that 99% of RMAs would already know.
I don't mind the money-making part of it. I don't care how much they charge. I don't care if it is good value for money. What I do care about is having a professional forum where I can increase my already great skills in these areas of law. Employers sitting in the room won't help me achieve this at all. -
Friday, 01 August 2014
I think these lawyers probably didn't tell the Office of MARA they were planning to turn CPD into a global rock concert with 50,000,000,000 non-agents in the same room to make money.
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Friday, 01 August 2014
I think this Legal Wise company is taking chances by running an approved CPD seminar as a public education session. I think the concept itself is messy and tries to be all things to all groups. That's not my idea of professional training.
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