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RMA advised not to call DIBP main line 131 881
UPDATE TO THIS POST 09/04/2014: As a result of the negative feedback from many agents via this blog and other modes of communication a survey has been created on RMA satisfaction with DIBP service levels.
I have just received this email from a concerned registered migration agent:
"Hi Liana,
Can you please enquire if phone number 131881 is allowed for an RMA to call for enquiries?
I called 131881 and after being hold for 50 minutes, the telephone was answered by an officer called Sudeep.
The officer advised that an RMA should not call this number and forward enquiries to Agents Gateway.
I responded that I need to find out an answer to my question today and Agents Gateway took 3 weeks to get a response and I cannot wait for 3 weeks for an answer to my enquiries.
My question is I have a client who has a newborn and both parents are subclass 163 visa holders.
The client applied for the newborn's passport and has been requested a visa grant letter for the newborn in order for the Pakistan Embassy to issue the newborn with a passport.
I understand that a visa grant notification can only be granted if the newborn holds a valid passport and I wanted to confirm this.
The case officer responded that this time he will assist me but not in future. He put me on hold to find the answer for me.
After speaking with him, I asked for email address where I should send the newborn details.
He provided Adelaide Business Skills email address and I asked if he could transfer me to citizenship section.
He asked the reason why and asked for my MARN. He took down my MARN before transferring me to another 1 hour wait…"
Any migration agents with these problems please post them up here. I will be meeting with the Migration Agents Section in Canberra on Thursday this week along with Beatrice and Gary (Vice-Convenor and Treasurer of MA) and will be sure to put this on the agenda.
At last week's NSW CRG meeting the issue of 'not being able to phone anyone at DIBP' was raised and discussed heavily by David Prince, representing the NSW Law Society, and Beatrice Leoncini of Migration Alliance. At the meeting, DIBP were informed that whilst they are undergoing reforms and moving to online applications, e-lodgement, and drop-box visa applications, there is a huge problem where registered migration agents cannot get telephone numbers to contact the DIBP and email addresses are too generic to be of any use and often go unanswered.
The discussion covered issues that agents are now facing whereby they are using any DIBP telephone number they can find, sometimes resorting to calling previously forged contacts higher up the ladder in DIBP, in the vain hope that the person might be able to transfer them to the correct division and person. This is leading to agents 'wearing out their goodwill' with the DIBP managers and officers, persons whom they previously had good reason to call.
If there are any other cases like this one please post up here. Examples will be taken to DIBP. DIBP are interested in a relationship of trust with agents. The issue is it must be both ways and it must not be a DIBP management decision with no practical effect down the line, especially with public servants sitting on the 131 881 number. I think Sudeep at DIBP forgets that he is, in fact, a public servant. Our clients are to be treated fairly and with dignity, and more importantly Registered Migration Agents should be treated fairly and with dignity and respect.
Honestly I think it is pretty insulting to the RMA profession to be told by a public servant not to call DIBP's main number. It seems on the face of it that RMAs are treated worse than the public. At least the public are 'allowed' to call.
Comments
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
It's a public gateway and not special for agents.
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014Liana I was at that NSW CRG meeting last Friday and I heard someone from the MAS get up and speak about creating a relationship of trust. I don't want to say who I am because then I will be in the spotlight. I am not Beatrice Leonicni and I am not Kurt, who I saw sitting with you at your table. I am a member of another professional association. I think that the DIBP really needs to pull it's head in and stop this 'us and them' war with RMAs. They are supposed to abide by a public service charter. Agents are representing the public and are also a stakeholder. It is one thing for someone to stand up and say that they want a relationship of trust. It is quite another for the message to trickle down to the staff on the call centre phones. I wonder who has been training them on how to treat RMAs on the phone?
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
I too have been on hold for 50 minutes to only then be transferred to another section for another 1 hour and then I was disconnected. I then had to call again as I needed to know a BV was being granted that day as it was urgent so I had no choice but to do it. I was on hold for Compliance, then Families, then Humanitarian. No one seemed to know which dept should or could help me. This has happened on multiple occasions and each time the officer has been very apologetic and helpful but still its a ridiculously long time.
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
It's high time for a DIBP agent hotline for RMA's. Too often legitimate questions about urgent client needs are met by zero response by email, a shocking lapse in professionalism. And weeks to respond to questions? As if the deadlines imposed by DIBP on clients have that much flexibility... It's also interesting to note that Immigration NZ has a far different attitude towards agents, and truly seems to appreciate agents - they have a dedicated branch for agent questions and issues, and the kind of antagonistic attitude shown by DIBP in cases like this is just not seen at INZ who appreciates the fact that having agents assisting clients actually results in a higher level and qualify of applications, which makes the job of those at INZ easier.
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
Hi Liana - thank you for the post. We regularly have to call case officers and delegates whom have previously been helpful in order to get to the right area when we have urgent matters. The point you make about wearing out 'goodwill' is very real for us, and we are disappointed when a delegate refuses to give out his / her direct line when we are dealing with them on a case or issue. On the flip side, we have experienced some great case officers who will give their details out - particularly the 457 team in Perth and Sydney, one or two partner visa case officers in Perth and some of the PSE team. Please help us to reiterate to the agents section that having open communication with the delegates involved on cases is a must for RMA's. Thank you - James Clarke
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
You are correct Liana, but why then is it called "Agents gateway" Implying that it IS indeed for agents only and the pubic who land there would believe that they are getting inside information.
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
I am very frustrated too by this reecent avoidance of phone contacts. DIBP letter from cqse officers rarely now provide a direct or even section phone contact but 131881 is sometimes given as a phone reference at the signature part of any letter - if indeed it is actaully signed.
An associated beef of mine - deriving from the same increasingly elphantine/electronic bureaucracy we now deal with - is that printing out the numerous pages ahead should be vaialble to line up what you need and in what order when electronic lodging. It is complicatetd. I get it. Certain choices close off or open up pages yet unreached. But it would be handy for RMAs and for personal applicants and should be availbale as a folw chart printout. -
Tuesday, 08 April 2014
Another fustration relates to Bridging visa B applications. At the moment Bridging visa applications are processed by the office that processes the applicant's substantial visa application. I have had 3 cases recently where we waited almost a month for a Bridging Visa B to be granted by Perth parent visa section and one case where we sent the application to another office of the DIBP than the processing office (the processing office was moved after we filed the original application). The DIBP office in Adelaide then forwarded the application to the processing office in Sydney and 2 weeks later my client had to travel to Brisbane office to apply over the counter for a bridging visa B two days before her intended overseas trip. While she was standing at the counter in Brisbane the visa was issued by Sydney!
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
Anyone got the position number of SUDEEP? Maybe this agent was too scared to get it, or too confused to ask. This DIBP officer obviously thinks they have authority to request an agent's MARN as some kind of subtle 'threat'.
What good is the agent's MARN to a call centre staff member other than as a means to make a complaint against the agent? Why was the MARN requested by a non-decision maker?· Owen Harris likes this comment. -
Tuesday, 08 April 2014
Completely agree with the points made. Our point last friday was that RMAs should be able to contact the department, but not through the 131881 (as a last resort since we don't have the time to wait for up to 1 hour - even with a speaker phone...). RMAs must have access to internal numbers to make appropriate queries. as RMAs we don't abuse that assistance nor are we rude to DIBP staff or ask silly questions - we ring when it is absolutely paramount, not because we're lazy but because we have a duty of care towards our clients and they need to make an informed decision through our advice. 'Doubt' regarding a particular piece of regulation is not lack of knowledge - it simply means we are not sure - Being unsure is not a reflection of our professionalism nor is it a 'reportable' offence nor is it the place of a call centre staff to make these assumptions.
Many a time RMAs ring each other to check on the veracity of our understanding about the implementation of some regulation or policy and when we hit a brick wall, we ask questions, which is the way relevant informaiton is obtained and discussed (because we really don't know EVERYTHING INSTANTLY, contrary to the popular and subjective belief of many DIBP staff, regardless where they sit in the corporate ladder).
A line of communication between DIBP and RMAs is paramount to corroborate information and obtain clarification. I'm sure the ATO does not tell accountants NOT to call the enquiry line becuase they MUST know the thousands of pages of taxation legislation, regulation and policy by heart... and be able to recall these 'instantly'.
My experience with the 131881 number has never been a bad one - but that of a LONG wait- and we don't have the time for it, however, any 'Sudeep' event should be documented and passed onto Liana so that we can continue to raise them with DIBP.
'Sudeep' also has a staff position number and an obligation towards those who call through - we MUST ask for those details in order to make this point and use the Global Feedback Unit more often to (praise and) complain, as transparency is what needs to take place, not the veiled threat of complaints against us through the regulator because 'we must be aware of immigration law'.
If the OMARA regulates RMAs, who regulates public servants in call centres with a seemingly amount of gate keeping and power, it seem? what is their 'Code of Conduct' (apart from the Public Service Code)? How are the 'Sudeep' of these world dealt with and how do we ensure that this behaviour is the exception, NOT the norm?
Watch this (MA's daily news) space...
Bea -
Tuesday, 08 April 2014
I have had the same experience, unfortunately, on a handful of occasions over the last year: call 131 881, wait on hold for about 30 minutes (as usual), get to speak to a very unfriendly operator who advises me that "this number is for the general public, not for Agents". When I advise the operator that "even Migration Agents are members of the general public", and I told that "Agents have their own contact ways of contacting the Department". When questioned as to what number I should then be calling, I am referred to the Agents' Gateway. After advising the operator that I need a more urgent response - than an email reply that may take several weeks - I am told (always) that there is nothing they can do to help me. I am flatly refused any service.
Getting an office workmate to call as a 'member of the general public' - which takes at least another 30 minutes of on-hold time - finally forces the operator to provide adequate answers.
I should note, however, that this is an exception. On most occasions, when identifying myself as a Migration Agent, I do get quite friendly and satisfactory assistance from the operators. What I have noticed, however, is that on the rare days when it happens, it seems to happen consistently: making a second phone call at a later time, and getting a different operator, will frequently elicit the same negative response. It's as if the Supervisor on that roster has specifically instructed everyone to be antagonistic and unhelpful towards RMAs. -
Tuesday, 08 April 2014
Another example of the unprofessional rudeness and contempt from the department. The agents gateway is not responded to in a prompt fashion and for all the time and game playing the answer could have been resolved in a shorter period of time but yet the department has this policy of derailing agents wherever they can see fit. It comes down to individual people in the department who have a modicum of decency and they are few and far between for your queries to be answered. Unfortunately it is not departmental policy but the individual's human decency. Another reason perhaps to not even contemplate working in this profession! There are copious instances where I have to bear the brunt of this gross lack of professionalism at best and an insidious, well orchestrated attempt to thwart and deny us our source of income by leaving us vulnerable for blame, and repercussions if things go wrong!!
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
Yes, the usual contempt for RMAs. The DIBP try to pretend they want us around, but the reality is, whilst RMAs are better, brighter, faster and earning more money than case officers, whilst RMAs continue to be more talented and skilled there will always be jealousy from the DIBP. It is only natural for them to be jealous. They can try all they like to convince me that they want a relationship of 'trust' but they are and will always be me and my client's adversary.
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
I have been advised by a case officer at Vic onshore protection that all DIBP contact numbers are soon to be joined into one general number. I scoffed at this and she laughed as this was supposedly to make "the inquiry process quicker". Expect those 1 hour phone calls to turn into 3 hours sometime this year.
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
If my partner needs such information from any Government department, and is given the run around as described by other agents here, she tells the person that she intends contacting the relevant Minister and asking for that person's name and/or position number. That usually works. With my partner it is not a threat, she will do it. As she works in the public service she knows how the system works.
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
Andrew, the case officers neglected to inform you that it is to make the 'INQUIRY PROCESS QUICKER FOR DIBP'.
People. Our Business. Whatever. -
Tuesday, 08 April 2014
Just because the Director of MAS says that she wants a relationship of trust doesn't mean that DIBP will be nice to agents and speak to them like humans. What can be a lovely theory needs to be put into practice by the DIBP and managers and Directors need to train their staff to be courteous. A culture of change in the DIBP would be nice. Not all case officers are rude. I just had a phonecall from a very nice officer. But then again, they called me and not the other way around.
I have tried to call them back but the line rings out the first time. The second time a person, who sounds bored and gruff answers the phone to me and wants to know my life story before putting me through......I am on hold.....it's been 12 mins so far.....still here....sitting on hold........will post this up on blog now..... -
Tuesday, 08 April 2014
Why are you all so shocked. DIAC hate migration agents. Don't be deluded. I used to work there. I know. It's a culture of disrespect. Ask Maryann Young. She knows what I am talking about! She worked there too. She knows!
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Tuesday, 08 April 2014
I am the poor RMA who was on phone with the officer and now regret it for not asking for his position number. What option do I have if I asked for his position number? Global feedback Unit? Any diciplinary action will be taken towards the officer? Will I risk the officer to lose his job while probably he has to feed his 2 offshore aged parents, wife and 5 children (He might once a migrant)? as the response he gave might have been the direction of his supervisor?
Which is the right contact if I need critical answers for my clients?
131881 - Please send enquiries through Agents Gateway
Direct Case Officer line - respond we normally get: Please call 131881
Agents Gateway enquiries - Risk being referred to the Office of the MARA for possible sanction (http://www.immi.gov.au/gateways/agents/contact/feedback/) and waiting for at least 2 weeks
eService Support - 3 weeks with probably a short 3 lines response?
Immigration blog
Did anyone receive updates from the department regarding the following: New Visa Pricing Table, New list of form changes which changed twice in two weeks, ceasing of AL 4 & 5 for student visa applications, and new financial info for AL 3 prior to 22 March 2014. I found out the same time as the General Public. The Agents Gateway has a last update of 9 March 2014. How do we stay Professional if we don't have the correct information to tell our clients?