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RMA advised not to call DIBP main line 131 881
UPDATE TO THIS POST 09/04/2014: As a result of the negative feedback from many agents via this blog and other modes of communication a survey has been created on RMA satisfaction with DIBP service levels.
I have just received this email from a concerned registered migration agent:
"Hi Liana,
Can you please enquire if phone number 131881 is allowed for an RMA to call for enquiries?
I called 131881 and after being hold for 50 minutes, the telephone was answered by an officer called Sudeep.
The officer advised that an RMA should not call this number and forward enquiries to Agents Gateway.
I responded that I need to find out an answer to my question today and Agents Gateway took 3 weeks to get a response and I cannot wait for 3 weeks for an answer to my enquiries.
My question is I have a client who has a newborn and both parents are subclass 163 visa holders.
The client applied for the newborn's passport and has been requested a visa grant letter for the newborn in order for the Pakistan Embassy to issue the newborn with a passport.
I understand that a visa grant notification can only be granted if the newborn holds a valid passport and I wanted to confirm this.
The case officer responded that this time he will assist me but not in future. He put me on hold to find the answer for me.
After speaking with him, I asked for email address where I should send the newborn details.
He provided Adelaide Business Skills email address and I asked if he could transfer me to citizenship section.
He asked the reason why and asked for my MARN. He took down my MARN before transferring me to another 1 hour wait…"
Any migration agents with these problems please post them up here. I will be meeting with the Migration Agents Section in Canberra on Thursday this week along with Beatrice and Gary (Vice-Convenor and Treasurer of MA) and will be sure to put this on the agenda.
At last week's NSW CRG meeting the issue of 'not being able to phone anyone at DIBP' was raised and discussed heavily by David Prince, representing the NSW Law Society, and Beatrice Leoncini of Migration Alliance. At the meeting, DIBP were informed that whilst they are undergoing reforms and moving to online applications, e-lodgement, and drop-box visa applications, there is a huge problem where registered migration agents cannot get telephone numbers to contact the DIBP and email addresses are too generic to be of any use and often go unanswered.
The discussion covered issues that agents are now facing whereby they are using any DIBP telephone number they can find, sometimes resorting to calling previously forged contacts higher up the ladder in DIBP, in the vain hope that the person might be able to transfer them to the correct division and person. This is leading to agents 'wearing out their goodwill' with the DIBP managers and officers, persons whom they previously had good reason to call.
If there are any other cases like this one please post up here. Examples will be taken to DIBP. DIBP are interested in a relationship of trust with agents. The issue is it must be both ways and it must not be a DIBP management decision with no practical effect down the line, especially with public servants sitting on the 131 881 number. I think Sudeep at DIBP forgets that he is, in fact, a public servant. Our clients are to be treated fairly and with dignity, and more importantly Registered Migration Agents should be treated fairly and with dignity and respect.
Honestly I think it is pretty insulting to the RMA profession to be told by a public servant not to call DIBP's main number. It seems on the face of it that RMAs are treated worse than the public. At least the public are 'allowed' to call.
Comments
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Wednesday, 09 April 2014Don't know what key I touched but lost my earlier response to your post, Mark... in a nutshell: this is yet ANOTHER issue in relation to DIBP staff who take it upon themselves to provide advice (which is mostly wrong) and make assumptions about the advice that a client may or may not have been given (which is mostly wrong also). They're not there to provide advice but to provide information, which is wrong within a specific context. We have a code of conduct which refers to standards of professional conduct and to relationships between agents. What part of the public service code deals with public servants who take it upon themselves to make judgements on agent's sound knowledge (because we ring the general number??) and make suggestions to clients to seek the services of a new agent? it's like if Centrelink told a disability pension client that the doctor who determined the disability knew nothing and to change doctors - countless of other examples across a number of industries.
This kind of conduct has to stop and if the Department, the MARA and all the stakeholders who have a great measure of power and say over migration agents (it seems) are requesting a higher level of trust from us, raising of these issues by MA and the industry has to be focussed and relentless until these entrenched behaviours change.
We also need to be aware of our own behaviours before we expect others to follow suit and use our energy wisely to effect the change we want to see. -
Wednesday, 09 April 2014
It is clear that there are serious issues regarding the ability of RMAs to contact DIBP. Although there is an Agents Gateway, the links in the gateway specifically referring to contact numbers redirects one to the contact details on the webpage that the public can access. It seems redundant to have an agents gateway if we will be redirected to the same numbers which we have been told not to call.
The Agents Gateway despite providing other assistance does not specifically address the needs of RMAs. They eService Support mainly provide technical support. -
Wednesday, 09 April 2014
Yes I have had this experience. DIBP can say whatever they want but we know the truth.
Department of Imbeciles and Bothersome Policy. -
Wednesday, 09 April 2014
I have experienced the same problem after waited about an hour. They refused to answer my very urgent inquiry directly, instead asking me to use agent's gateway. So I did and 3 weeks later I received an response confirming that there was an error from the case officer and apologized for any inconvenience has caused. However my client's visa has already expired and DIBP put him into a very unfortunate situation.
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Wednesday, 09 April 2014
Hi,
Is there a legal foundation for a delegate to give their position number? I thought there was. I requested it from a particularly rude delegate who flatly refused saying that DIBP did no such thing.
I had always thought that it was law in this country that a representative of the government is to supply such information on request.
Cheers -
Wednesday, 09 April 2014
I worked with a colleague who had the same situation. My colleague was a new agent and was in the office by herself and had to call the dept as no one else was in (we have a small office with 2-3 agents)
She called the department for advise on a partner visa. The applicant was on a 457 but was about to loose her position in QLD due to a re-structure. Her partner visa was lodged but due to a lot of other complications, she wanted to get some more advice and to calm the applicant at the same time.
The phone operator reprimanded her for calling and also directed her to Agents gateway.
She advised him that she was a new agent and worked in an office by herself and therefore needed some advise - but he refused to assist.
For months after this, my colleague who was new to the industry was too afraid to call the department for fear that this would affect her registration and if she did have to call them, she would always say she was the applicant or the sponsor etc....
I had not heard of this before or since then which was about 18 months ago now, but clearly it is still happening... -
Wednesday, 09 April 2014
Please read it carefully to the end before getting offended. I just state what I have experienced.
I have received the same treatment few times as Jennifer and I am sorry to say but it was with DIBP Customer Services representative in Melbourne call centre. I am sorry I have not written the their possition number before, but I will in future. Incidentally all 3 times I spoke to person of Indian origin. I do not wish to stir trouble but all the case officers who have been over demanding have been of ethic background. I understand they needs to be strict in applying the law but they seem to be especially hard in cases where the applicant is coming from the same country as they come or near by. I have had this happen with case officers from Asian and European background, so there is not particular pattern.
I am Migrant my self but these people have not learned how to treat clients with respect. I come from country where bureaucracy rules and it seems case officers or customer service persons carry on with the attitudes from their come country from around the globe.
There was interesting episode of Insight yesterday saying that it takes years for person to adjust to the new society and I agree. It takes 2-3 years for migrant to start thinking and acting like the rest of the Australian residents and for some even longer. In my country (little European country...) people speak rough and when they speak in English they appear rude, not by purpose I might say. When migrants speak English (our another language that is not mother language) they usually think in their language and then translate it in their heads before saying it. This is problem because they translate literally and they appear rude or rough when they talk but is perfectly normal in their home country.
For those rude case officers, I bet they have had the same attitude forever and no one can change them. It seems Migrants that get jobs in ATO and DIBP start feeling they are on a power trip and get to the old habits to judge and underestimate everyone. It has been know to cause problems in many ethnic communities to have information that is private liked to the community by staff in ATO and DIBP which should have been kept private. I have heard few about know business people that have started successful businesses.
When we all start thinking and behaving as one, then we will have great time working together. This and the culture of disrespecting all agents has to stop. We are here to help them and work with them to get the visa approved faster, not wasting their and mine time.
I also have to point that I have had great experience with many case officers who are migrants or call centre staff from DIBP and it appears it's character issue rather then migrant background but it seems to be more often problems with people who have migrated in few years back. I am saying this from my own experience because it took me few years to get used to the politeness of the English language.
Let's hope this Minister will start a dialogue and gets some ideas from NZ and Canada immigration departments.
Cheers -
Wednesday, 09 April 2014
Hi Migrant Agent, I believe that this is the perennial cultural and linguistic diversity issue - an aspect that somehow we ALL think occurs in non-English language groups or is resolved after we've been settled in Australia for more than 5 years (the period of time governments determine it takes for someone to settle successfully in oz) or if we've undertaken graduate studies so we intellectually understand what the standard is or if we're migrants because we understand what others go through for having experienced similiar situations ourselves...
I wonder how much cultural diversity training is included in the Graduate Diploma of Migration Law or throughout law degrees. Dealing effectively with cultural diversity has to be, in my view, mandatory for ANYONE who is in the provision of professional client services, INCLUDING the public service. Behaviours which are entrenched cannot easily be changed unless there is a significant amount of self awareness going on and why would we do that if we can point fingers at others and lay the blame elswhere?
Could we imagine a culturally-aware professional which focussed on the client's needs rather than committing 'assumicide' every second or fifth step of the way during any type of migration process? I can think of a few who are right up there, but not before doing a heck of a lot of work on themselves, their values and their behaviours. And culture is not just about ethnic/linguistic background, it's about the cultural norms that we spouse as part of a broader society (social, economic, educational)... we need to be at the forefront of the change we want to see - simple as that AND we also need to feel free to express how we feel, even if it takes a while to write something by checking it's not a knee jerk reaction or 'does not offend others' - no one will EVER agree with EVERTHING we say (and don't I know it...) but it should not stop us from expressing our opinion when we feel strongly about something, particularly amongst colleagues. -
Wednesday, 09 April 2014
Are you 100% sure they are Indian origins. Have you asked them about their ethnicity.
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Thursday, 10 April 2014
Hi Bea, I agree and people love to be judgmental and biased and it's our nature to do so in every aspect our lives. I think cultural diversity training is urgently required at DIBP and other public service bodies. My comment was based on my experience and what I see around me. I have friends and family from 10 different countries and it's great to see all behaving as one and in compliance with the Australian values while giving an ethnic twist to it. I have studied cultures and group behavior, I am sociology graduate with major in social interaction so I have been fascinated by the life in Australia from intellectual point of view not just as a citizen.
To answer the guest, I am almost Indian (being married to Indian for 15 years, makes me more than half Indian I guess) so I can recognize the person when I speak to them. I love and respect the culture and I gave it as example because I understand values and believes people bring into their works that are based on their upbringing in other country. I had many preconceptions when I came here 16 years ago and I am thankful to my friends and work colleagues who have taught me so much how to be better member of Australian society. I see people around me at different stages of their cultural change depending how long they have lived here and it's great to see how they adjust to the new social and cultural norms and take them as their own while still keeping in touch with their previous homeland.
I think this is great but as long as we keep in mind we are members of a new society and we need to follow the norms set by this society, no matter how different from our old ones, because we made conscious decision to live here. These are the values and norms we pass to our children as well as they grow in this great society.
Freedom of speech is great and I agree with you we are still worried that people will misunderstand what we say and how we say it.
We need to be joined in our effort to make DIBP realise that we are here to help them, not work against them. I think when we stop the unregistered practice only then they will maybe start changing their view. What I have seen from Canada and New Zealand, their acceptance of only agent applications does not stop the crooks from lodging visas in the applicants name, pretend to be the applicant as they do from overseas. I heard something about DIBP planing to check the IP address where the visa was lodged and where the applicant is residing and who's office is it as part of their fight against unregistered practice. I am not sure where I read it, must have been in one of their April fool jokes....
They love talking about it but nothing gets done and we still get abused when we call and we are met with antagonism as we can see from the many examples here. I would advise you to avoid going to Parramatta office for any reason, unless you want to be met with rude and overbearing client service officers (I would send all those back to kindergarden for some basic common courtesy courses). -
Thursday, 10 April 2014
Christopher and Liana
Has DIBP ever had the intention to improve their services for migration agents? If yes, they should set up a system similar to the system that is currently used in the Australian Taxation Office (ATO). ATO has a much better communication system for tax agents.
In addition to the information provided to tax agents under “Tax Professionals” on ATO website, ATO also publish a “Fact sheet for registered tax agents”. The fact sheet provides detailed information on how to contact ATO for different matters. Tax Agents can contact ATO by using registered agent phone line between 8am to 6 pm, Monday to Friday. By entering a Fast Key Code of the phone line, a tax agent can access to the right section of the ATO quickly without being held up in a queue. Most importantly, the people who answer the phone call are friendly and helpful and always provide their name, the location of their offices and the receipt number for each conversation.
I think migration agents deserve a higher level of service from DIBP similar to what tax agents currently receive.
By the way, thanks a lot for the ongoing support that you individually and Migration Alliance provide. -
Monday, 14 April 2014
I had a situation where a client in China was granted a SC457 visa and his wife and 2 children included. Problem was the wife's passport number was incorrect and Immi case officer was advised. I received advice it was changed in the system and my clients went to the airport to travel 2 days later only to discover the wife's passport was not updated electronically yet. Thankfully I had a senior contact number and called immediately and within 30 minutes it was all fixed. Had it not been the Husband and Children were already processed through Immigration and My client would have been devastated.
Put simply there are times when agents need to contact Immigration to solve problems that need immediate attention and we need access at senior levels not the junior level of the call centre who cannot make decisions.
Life is complex as an Agent and does not need to be made more so by attitude and opinion from Immigration appointed people.
Having said that, on many occasions I have had great satisfaction from the case officers and supervisors but also the opposite. -
Wednesday, 16 April 2014
Hi everyone,
I thought you might be interested in a response I got from Agent Gateway today.
After responding to my question they wrote:
"...further enquiries of this nature should be directed to the department's general enquiries line on 131 881."
Pretty entertaining stuff hey! -
Monday, 05 May 2014
Client called DIBP this morning on 131881, was advised to let his representative(me)to make the contact on this number, client said it was me to let him to call this number directly as the number was for general public to use but not for the agent, he was told the agent can now use this number as their system has been updated (not sure the contact number has anything to do with their system).
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Wednesday, 24 September 2014
I agree with you, yesterday I wait more than 1:30 hours... and nothing...
Tomorrow I'll try my lucky again! -
Friday, 16 January 2015
Quite honestly, I don't even bother calling the 131881 number unless it is regarding information that they have in their system on a particular client. I would never call to ask a complex question as, quite frankly, the majority of the call centre staff lack any advanced knowledge of legislation and policy and most of the time don't even understand the question. I know this as I have called pretending to be a member of the general public in order to try and get information. Their level of knowledge is appalling.
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Thursday, 05 March 2015
i call the 131881 number,just a query about the lack of feedback after 2 years for visa 309
MESSAGE SAYS office not open,which i know is a lie .can,t even get past first base.
What is wrong with this stupid country? -
Thursday, 05 March 2015
I just rang 131 881 and asked a very simple question. I am an agent and I was pretending not to be an agent. The person on the phone had no clue what I was asking and no clue where to direct my query. ROBOTS. Don't call 131881. Call an agent because agents know what they are talking about.
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Wednesday, 29 April 2015
anyother alternate number to contact the immigration office now.any updates please post...
Immigration blog
Well try and visit the office- the response is worse. DIBP will, in most cases, REFUSE to accept and application, request for cancellation or other matter Schedule 1 or other regulation charging the office to deal with.
I was told there is no officer in the office that can deal with a student visa cancellation request and advised me to email the relevant student section. We needed an immediate cancellation and could not wait 2 or 3 weeks for the email to make its way through the queue and an immediate cancellation will have allowed the BVE to be lodged with that same office/er to effect the BVE once the cancellation was completed.
However, after the refusal there was no option other than to send the email and wait until it was processed. By the time the cancellation occurred and I was able to attend the office to apply for the BVE 3 days had passed- hence the reason I attended the office so the cancellation and BVE could occur concurrently.
The case officer very kindly advised my client to get a new agent as I had left them unlawful for three days- The same case officer was not aware I had attended the same office requesting the cancellation. Nonetheless, a dismal failure of service standards on their part then to voice such opinion about my service to my client being in the position of being unlawful for three days, that arose from DIBP refusal of service for the cancellation of student visa in the first place. Ironic!!