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Immigration Daily News Rude, Authoritarian Conduct from the Department - An Unfortunate Event!Australian Immigration Daily News
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Rude, Authoritarian Conduct from the Department - An Unfortunate Event!
Have you ever been treated rudely by an employee of the Department (hahaha)???
I just thought I would share an experience that I had recently and test to see if it resonates with anyone in the RMA/migration lawyer community!
I am handling a matter in which the client has been resident in Australia for about 20 years, and has Australian citizen children. He recently applied for a further substantive visa, which was refused, as was a request for Ministerial Intervention. His BVE was set to cease, however I fortuitously (as a result of reading Austlii religiously in order to write articles for this site) discovered a case from the Federal Circuit Court that identified grounds for a judicial review application. I lodged that application recently.
The client had an interview scheduled with "compliance" in relation to his visa status.
As I was sitting at my desk I got a call from the person working for compliance who was conducting the interview with my client.
When I picked up the phone, said hello and asked the officer how he was, he very abruptly told me that I wasn't supposed to ask him how he was (!!!). He then badgered me by asking me in a very rude manner whether I knew what my client's visa status was, whether I had ever dealt with "compliance", and that as a registered migration agent that I was supposed to know everything about how the compliance section operates.
He also told me that my client was going to be taken into detention, even though no notice that this might be a possibility had been mentioned before the interview. The client has 2 Australian citizen children, and 3 others, including an 18 month old.
The officer spoke to me so rudely and loudly that my office colleagues could hear what he was saying, and they asked me what was going on.
My poor client was also distressed and appalled that this officer was yelling at me, for no reason at all - I was doing my best to remain my usual sweet angelic self!!
The conduct of the Department's officer was totally authoritarian and, to use a word Liana loves, "fascistic" in tone.
And it was all unnecessary: we had lodged the judicial review application, provided proof that we had done so, and the client was legally entitled ot the grant of a further BVE.
So ended another delightful day in the world of migration law.
Does this sound strangely familiar to anyone, haha?
Comments
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Friday, 24 November 2017Happened to me yesterday. I applied for a visa on the 21/11. The system did not generate BVA. I sent emails after few hours to all student@border addresses I have and lodged a student visa enquiry form, then patiently waited until following day. In the morning, the BVA was not there. Client was supposed to fly overseas at 10pm so we needed the BVA and soon after the BVB. I lodged a technical support request and went to the Office here in Perth with all documentation. I was hoping to speak with someone who could check what was going on. At the entrance, I politely explained the situation to the man at counter who was absolutely cold and arsh. I went on showing me from his iPad the link to the student enquiry form, have me a business card with the 181whatever number and told me there was nobody in the building who could help me. I asked how long it may take for a reply from the enquiry form and he said up to 7 days. I then replied it was too late for my client. He scrolled his shoulders and said goodbye. My visit lasts less than 4 minutes all up. I left the building very angry and distressed and shame on me that the right words only came once I was in the office. In fact, the LI provides for bridge by visas to be applied for and granted at the counter, so this man had no authority to tell me that nobody in the building could help. Luckily, by the time I was back in the office the issue had been solved by the tech department. However, I really felt like being in a movie where those FBI agents look at you with their icy eyes, careless. I truly believe public servants working for DI P are trained to behave like that, because it is humanely impossible to naturally have such attitude.
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Friday, 24 November 2017
Michael Arch, did you get the officer name and position number? My staff also experience rude customer service from Brisbane office, whom refused to provide name and position number until my staff requested to speak to his supervisor.
Perhaps, DIBP staff in stress of redundancy? -
Friday, 24 November 2017
You should have mentioned that you might have dealt with "compliance" in the past but since you are now dealing with "status resolution" you expected them to be more understanding and
subtle. -
Friday, 24 November 2017
It would be nice if are provided with special numbers to contact them when we need to speak to them
They need to respect us more!!! -
Friday, 24 November 2017
i was given the supervisors card in front my client at compliance and was told they were very concerned with the advice im giving my client and to call if im unsure. lol ththry have wrong advice admitted it my client now has pr
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Friday, 24 November 2017
The act like they are above the law , and nothing will happen to them as no one complaint against them.
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Friday, 24 November 2017
Happened quite a few times with me as well at the Melbourne office . Took me a while to understand that one has to stoop to their level to shut them up .
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Friday, 24 November 2017
Hi MIchael, Yes deifinitely. Most officers in compliance are very good but I have had 2 similar situations.
I had a BVE application pre submission of MI, 956 provided, went back to the provided appointment 2 weeks later to confirm the ministerial already submitted or a ticket to depart. Then the interview. Where is your 956 form? You know you need this. You are a registered Agent?
Then re work rights and client situation, do you have a mortgage?
A yes
Q how much is the mortgage?
A $700,000
Q Why do you have a mortgage that high? Isn't that a big risk. Why would you do that?
Client stunned by the question.
I was a little shocked at the abusive attitude and aggressive nature of this case officer.
Then was forced to submit 1005 to apply for work rights when the first case officer issuing the BVE said better to do this when you come back for the next BVE to be issued. What a total opposite approach this was.
Another was at the counter. Had a week to submit Protection visa application. Was ill for 4 days. Had the application with me but no time to submit before the appointment at Compliance.
Discussion went like this
You were supposed to submit the protection visa application
A: i have it with me to submit but did not have time to do this before coming to you because I have been ill for most of the week
That is not acceptable.
A. I am going to the office to submit it now. Office on the ground floor.
Further attack on the client and then aggressive to me.
My response was
"Don't speak to me like that" "I am here to legalise the status of this applicant" "They have come her to comply" "Why do you have a problem with that?"
If you speak to me again like that I will speak with the manager about your approach.
I don't believe we should accept that behaviour and I will not. -
Friday, 24 November 2017
Michael,
The applicant has been here for 20 years. Has gamed the system and flouted the law. Do you expect rolled-gold treatment for your client? Fair enough the case officer blew a fuse and lost all perspective. But this is a problem that cuts to the heart of our system of government and rule of law. We have laws and a robust system of fairness against them. But when people expect laws to be bent in their favour after breaking them for so long, I can understand some public servants in DIBP getting a bit short, especially when they need to turn up to work, pay their taxes, be sure to pay transport fares and basically do things by the book The Australian government and the Department have tolerated flagrant abuse of the law in tolerating unlawful citizens, no wonder when individual case officers come across opporunists who have gained the system and expect all the privilages of a full Australian citizen. Sorry, but deportation is what they deserve. -
Monday, 27 November 2017
Notable: I respectfully suggest that you know the facts before posting. As a matter of fact this person has held lawful status throughout the time that he has lived in Australia, has lawfully operated a productive business while here as a lawful visa holder, and has several Australian citizen children. It is all too easy to condemn and demonise migrants, but perhaps you may stop to consider the enormous contribution that migrants make to Australian society and the benefits to Australia that derive from diversity and multiculturalism. And you may want to pause to consider that everyone in Australia who is not of Aboriginal heritage has migrant ancestry!
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Saturday, 25 November 2017
It is not easy to deal with DIBP. I have taken over the file from another agent, and application for business visa was lodged in November 2015. I took over the file in middle of last year. Since then submitted form 956, and received confirmation of receipt. Additional submission was also sent shortly after, to address the request. Since then there have been at leas 1/2 dozen e-mails sent to case officer, no reply. Only one reply in June this year that case officer will be away until middle of September, again a couple of e-mails after his supposed return and no reply. Try to escalate it through the business visa section, and person that answers the phone transfers me and you know where: to call centre 131881, and then you get message " we can not take your call at present, call back later, or you are 87th in the queue. DIBP approach is: You want us, we do not want you!!!!
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Saturday, 25 November 2017
Migration agents instructions - Instructions from PAMS
Engaging positively
RMAs can facilitate business for the Department by assisting clients to lodge assessment ready applications.
Engaging positively with RMAs benefits the Department as well as the Department’s clients. RMAs are valued stakeholders of the Department, who operate within a regulatory framework that includes a Code of Conduct.
Departmental staff must ensure they interact with RMAs in a fair and reasonable manner including treating agents with courtesy and respect, as well as providing them with clear, accurate, timely and relevant information. It is in the Department’s interest to encourage a culture of openness and cooperation between RMAs and departmental staff and for staff to communicate effectively with RMAs.
When developing policy and legislation, the Department recognises the importance of consulting with RMAs and, where possible, providing them with advance notice of forthcoming changes. Consultation is usually undertaken with the professional associations of the migration advice industry. The OMARA can provide assistance to departmental staff who need to communicate substantial changes or information of importance to RMAs. -
Wednesday, 29 November 2017
I had an experience with Compliance that was rather frustrating. My client who had overstayed a visitor visa went to compliance to apply for a BVE while sorting out leaving arrangements. The compliance officer told her that she will be able to stay in the country on domestic violence grounds ! No. I then had to convince her otherwise, but Immigration told me.....
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Wednesday, 29 November 2017
Have a read of this SMH article;
EXCLUSIVE
MARCH 28 2017
Two Australian children caught up in move to deport their Fijian parents.
The department ended up detaining the parents as well as their two Australian citizens children for more than two weeks in Villawood and then a hotel apartment in Parramatta under 24 hours guard watch sleeping inside the room with the family at the expense of tax payers before having the whole family of 5 removed back to Fiji after 17 years. Even Aussie kids have no rights any more. -
Wednesday, 29 November 2017
The very last time I phoned the Department - earlier this year for an urgent problem that required clarification and escalation on behalf a new potential client that came to me for Compliance Advice and after 40 or so min on hold, I was also told "Your the Migration Agent. You should know the answer"...... clunk (dial tone!). I ended up telling the client to front up to compliance themselves and thankfully they got their situation sorted. Applicants these days get treated more respectfully and helpfully by the Department if they don't have an RMA associated with their file. How sad for the profession overall to be regarded so badly when in fact we could offer so much more if the Department themselves didn't provide so many blocks, including knowledge sharing to enable us to be more effective overall :-(
Immigration blog
If you'd enjoy a further laugh riot, file a complaint with the department about the staff member.